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Shearwater Message Board :: View topic - oh friends
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oh friends
https://board.shearwatermusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=188
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Author:  Jonathan [ 07 Nov 2004 10:04 ]
Post subject:  oh friends

We're all riding around in a state of shock after the election, as I'm sure most of you are. It's so strange to be traveling through a country that's just been taken over by an unholy alliance of religous fundamentalists (whose numbers only seem to be increasing) and corporate cynics.

For any readers from overseas, please know that there are many, many Americans who are desperately opposed to the Bush administration and its policies, and that we haven't given up.

Also, I daresay, there are at least a few Christians left here who are not evangelicals (represent, Episcopalians!), though in darker moments I have to admit that I wouldn't be surprised to see the cross become the new swastika in our time (ie an ancient, powerful, sacred symbol hijacked and perverted by imperial zealots). I studied religion in college, and I've always felt like a spiritual person, but if to be a Christian means to be an adherent to the bible of James Dobson then I'm about ready to become a militant atheist. The fundamentalists' idea of God, and what God 'wants' the world to be like, is insane, and dangerous to everyone.

I think the thing that's most frustrating to me is that I feel like we've passed a turning point as a nation. Hopefully not the point of no return - but a place where we could have turned back and said no, gotten back on our feet again. But instead we've had to watch in horror as our country continues to dismantle itself, to turn a blind eye to the poor and aging, to fill corporate coffers at the expense of ordinary citizens, to take what tax revenue remains and spend it on weapons with which to kill poor people all over the world.

I'm ashamed to be American today. But there are many people and places in this country that I love, and I really, really hope it's not too late for us all.

Love to you -

J

Author:  eino by sea [ 07 Nov 2004 17:33 ]
Post subject: 

i was raised lutheran, which in my experience is not evangilical in the now pejorative sense. in what i have learned, faith is first personal, second familial, third communal and lastly national. i am not sure what the doctrines and dogmas may wish, but nowhere in the new testament is there description of warring nations in the name of god. christ stood and died in the name of love and forgiveness of sins. he did not stand for the imposition of one's will one another person. he wanted change through belief and forgiveness and love, not war and death and imperialism. he said to his desciples (where evangilism seems to come from), go thee therefore among all nations and teach, baptising them in the name of the father and the son and the holy ghost. where does he say, go destroy nations and whole peoples who disagree? he didn't say kill the dissidents. he said, while on the cross, forgive them, father, for they know not what they do. the son of god was crucified, and in the midst of his own execution, which by modern "civilised" standards would be inhuman and unimaginable, he asked his father to forgive his tormentors. a high standard no nationally vocal evangilical seems to be willing to live up to. i hope this nation has not turned a blind corner, but i fear it has. the polarisation taking over is not a rational, fact based disagreement. it is a gut-feeling, irrational belief in black and white. you or i or any logical thinker cannot change the mind of a person whose convictions are based on irrational belief in something intangible. those who i know who voted for w did so because of 'character.' who can quantify such a quality? i cannot. my mother voted for him because he is pro life. i love my mother, but one wooden plank does not make a solid bridge. we have a ruined economy, an intense rich-poor split that seems insurmountable, a corporate nation intent on splitting us further apart, an apathetic, consumerist society who can do little but buy the next diesel jean. there is much change that needs to happen in our country, starting with us. the bottom of the corporate ladder, as it seems, since that is the only measure anymore. thankfully, there is change that can happen even in midst of this mindless, fearstrewn time.
we need to start by forgetting our national fear. there seem to be only amalgous objects for our fears; 'terrorism' (which can include such things as spitting and giving the old half moon) and 'national security' (from what? i have not heard one itemised, concrete, rational list of security issues. back to the rational/irrational dichotomy). if we can forget our fear of dying in car accidents in order to drive to work and the grocery store, than why can't we make the stretch and forget our fear of dying in a bombing. who is the greater cause of fear when on one hand, you have a government telling you everyday to fear not the foreign terrorists who are bent on killing you (which is a bit like telling someone not to look at the ceiling--an old sixth grade camp joke), and on the other hand, an omnipresent but somewhat formless international terrorist body bent on imposing its will? the rational person fears the terrorists themselves, who have proven both will and ability to inflict great strains of death. the irrational person fears the idea of these same people, drilled into his head by a president who wants only to fill his own pockets and those of his friends. relieving this fear is like telling a child that there is no monster in the closet. the child knows this, but it doesn't matter. he is afraid of the monster in his mind, not the one in the closet.
our country has room for improvement, which is good. i only hope we can begin.

Author:  Stabby [ 07 Nov 2004 22:13 ]
Post subject: 

I just ask that whatever side you support, i want you all to remember what this man said during the campaign. He promised to cut the deficit in half and he swore he was a friend to the middle class. He siad freedom was on the march and that there wouldn't be a draft. He said he was a friend of the environment and that we wouldn't need to be as reliant on foreign oil in the future. He also said he earned politcal capital and plans to spend it...

The republicans can no longer keep playing the underdog card that they love to play so much, they now have more centralized consolidated raw power than at any time in my life. It can't still be "Clinton's fault" anymore. the republicans are responsible for our country. Hold them accountable. Stay honest.

Author:  mikec_ct [ 07 Nov 2004 22:41 ]
Post subject: 

Well put Jonathan.

My two cents:
Image

Author:  la1itree [ 14 Nov 2004 18:04 ]
Post subject: 


Author:  Guest [ 17 Nov 2004 16:09 ]
Post subject: 

With this disaster still stinging, I submit that one of the main shortcomings of the left is that we fail to locate our progressive platform in anything in particular. We assert that things like Justice and Equality exist as transcendental forms, without regard for the particular practices that comprise them. The left needs to remember that there is no such thing as Justice apart from just actions. Speaking personally, I don't hold my commitment to social action and equal rights, access to healthcare and public education, strong labor and ending the injustice of capital punishment in opposition to my religious faith, but as the fruits of it. This campaign was pretty poorly run, and part of that was the failure of the dems to ground their platform, which they consistently asserted was looking out the middle class, in any particular set of "values" that would motivate two very wealthy white guys to care about the middle class. Furthermore, why wasn't their campaign looking out for the growing working class as the middle class shrinks? Anyway, there was a great article back in August about religious liberals in that I thought addressed this issue well. Sorry for rambling.

Author:  lee [ 17 Nov 2004 16:12 ]
Post subject:  evangelicals

jonathan,

i hope you wouldn't write off evangelical christians simply based on bush and his policies. frankly, i'm with you in feeling utterly robbed and violated during these dismal past four years. i also count myself an evangelical christian who has seen the very name become a pseudo bully pulpit for a misguided individual. bush's co-opting of the evangelical moniker is a crime and a serious disservice to believers.

thus, it's pretty easy for centrists such as myself to become an easy target these days. not all evangelicals aim to hammer their religion into the heads of the masses, which, dissapointingly, seems to be the common perception. i wouldn't want beliefs forced on me as much as the next person, and that very foundation of respect is what is so badly needed in the administration. oh yeah, and a certain level of intelligence too.

my two cents...

lee

Author:  perry [ 17 Nov 2004 16:13 ]
Post subject: 

Sorry, I posted that last "guest" post. I simply forgot to log in and wasn't trying to hide behind a sweetly obfuscating curtain of anonymity and zeros and ones.

perry

Author:  Dave [ 18 Nov 2004 15:56 ]
Post subject:  evangelicalism


Author:  Jonathan [ 19 Nov 2004 20:24 ]
Post subject: 


Author:  la1itree [ 20 Nov 2004 23:19 ]
Post subject: 


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