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Shearwater Message Board - View topic - remember the environment?



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 remember the environment? 
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004 02:18
Posts: 191
Location: austin, tx
Anybody else notice that worries about the natural world and "the environment" don't even seem to be on the table for the presidential candidates? Beyond lip service to "green" energy I haven't heard anything. Though the cries of "drill, baby, drill" at the RNC sent shivers down my spine.


04 Sep 2008 15:40
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Joined: 25 May 2008 14:09
Posts: 12
Location: Lancaster, TX
For some reason, they’ve decided that “environmental issues” is synonymous with “alternative energy issues.” Of course they’re going for the major concerns of population, the ones that are likely to draw in the widest possible audience and quickly grab their attention. Maybe there is hope for an expansion on issues concerning the environment in the debates, but I doubt it. I know what you mean about the drilling, scary. Try riding in to work with someone who agrees with them (on that and so many other things).


05 Sep 2008 21:11
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Joined: 22 Apr 2007 02:33
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Location: austin, texas
I think it may have something to do with the fact that many people are more concerned with their own comfort than the well-being of an entire planet inhabited by humans, animals, and plant life alike. However, if I were unemployed and could not afford the things that I can now, then I believe I would be forced to focus more on my own survival. It's somewhat of a luxury that I don't necessarily have to worry about myself all the time and can shift those worries onto other species.

I do think it's a shame that this trend toward being "green" is greatly motivated by our dependence on oil and less by an understanding and acceptance of our responsibility to take care of our home.


05 Sep 2008 23:59
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06 Sep 2008 12:22
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Last edited by jdc4 on 08 Sep 2008 00:16, edited 1 time in total.



07 Sep 2008 12:32
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Joined: 22 Apr 2007 02:33
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07 Sep 2008 22:29
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Joined: 08 Sep 2008 09:04
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Will the environment remember you?
refrains sung by refugees
a lost gereration, their dying hopes
amp into the ethers.

New ways seeing, hues all 'round
no more dark shadows fall-
the hail from our own heads
the good is. the peace will be.
It's out there. It is out there.


08 Sep 2008 10:04
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Joined: 08 Sep 2008 19:25
Posts: 201
Location: Geneseo
It seems to me that, regardless of political stripe, many people, at least in the United States, don't understand our co-dependence with nature, whether it's mutually beneficial or parasitic, which seems to be our more common impulse. Even at some pro-environmental rallies, people tend to dumb down the issues at least a little bit for the sake of 'bipartisanship' or their audience. I once heard a speaker at a green rally and in NYC say something to the effect of "I don't want NY to be an aquarium in 50 years," which while funny (and true, as the ocean is encroaching on many island nations, forcing their inhabitants further inland, and, if the trend continues, they may have to leave their islands altogether), really didn't get to the point of global warming. Sure, ocean levels are rising, which of course is important both to human and non-human life, but species depend on at least a semi-stable biosphere to survive. And this is where we're getting it so wrong. Temperatures rising lead to higher water temperatures (obviously), which decrease the likelihood for the ability for fish, at least some, to survive in that environment. When certain species that are connected on the food web become extinct, whether locally or globally, they effect other animals that required their existence to survive become less likely to survive, and it continues up the chain on and on. Co-dependent relationships, particularly mutually beneficial ones, are some of the most amazing of all nature's details, and they've taken thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of years to develop into the place they are now. And as the environment around them changes, so might they. I read somewhere that the western deserts of the united states used to be almost entirely swamps, but the spaniard explorers came up through Mexico and killed the beaver population, for food and fur. The reason that the west was swampy was because of the dams that the beavers had erected. Once the beavers died, their damns collapsed, and the ecosystem that existed there died, turning the area into desert. Humans should be well aware of their ability to vastly impact their environment, but many aren't. Which I think is why it isn't discussed. I mean, hell, whenever someone brings up how well educated Obama is, it's normally put as a quality that puts him apart from the American people, as if it's a negative to be educated. Try discussing all of the reasons that global warming impacts our planet, and you'd get booed off at a political rally, or at least ignored. People just don't understand how complex and interwoven all life is, and that ignorance is played so much in terms of leaving out most of the details of the picture. Which is people can agree with Palin that it's a great idea to drill in a nature preserve, or to pass environmental bills that do nothing, or to ignore the shifting climate, because they just don't know how much it will effect them.
It's a shame we're assumed too dumb to understand these things anyway. Maybe if we weren't, we could do something about this.

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08 Sep 2008 19:43
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09 Sep 2008 17:42
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'Die jilpfer nagt', opening page to book EYELIDS OF MORNING, 1973

It takes looking at the neurological constructs of our uniquely bicameral brains to start to make sense of the meme we now find ourselves experiencing. This brain is the most complex thing in the known universe other than the Whole itself. Made of up to a billion neurons/cells/synapse, it likely is capable of eventual emergent consciousness of ALL KNOWING/GOD understanding ('your mind is God'- Robert Anton Wilson in PROMETHEUS RISING) if evolution is allowed to continue inspite of some of our more basic biological imperatives to the contrary, namely, procreating the species out of existance in a world of finite resources (a limited view I admit, as, I, too, am still waiting for the 'CELOPHANE' PROPHECY conscious to put me under its wammy...) Neuro/cognitive/emergence work hand-in-hand with verification of trad. meditation/excercise/play/work will yeild much in the next decades. Basis for much of this work was started with T. Learys' work on identifying 8 states of neurological developement: the first four concerned with survival of the organism; the next four with meta-states moving consciousness to higher connection with the Universal Whole, if not becoming It out right. To further quote RAW form PROM. RIS: "What the thinker thinks, the prover proves." And, "If you kick the lone prop from a man comprising his BS (belief system), that being, 'I'm a white, not a goddamn nigger', or, 'I'm straight, not some fucking queer', or even, 'I'm a republican, not a chicken-shit Democrat (or visa versa), you will only prompt a fight and complete denial. He is not able to hear, let alone understand, commands issued from other than the Alphas in his sphere."

Following is some recent study refuting what may seem intuitively obvious to some casual observers:
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/003240.html Here is an excerpt from this article: The investigators used functional neuroimaging (fMRI) to study a sample of committed Democrats and Republicans during the three months prior to theU.S. Presidential election of 2004. The Democrats and Republicans were given a reasoning task in which they had to evaluate threatening information about their own candidate. During the task, the subjects underwent fMRI to see what parts of their brain were active. What the researchers found was striking. "We did not see any increased activation of the parts of the brain normally engaged during reasoning," says Drew Westen, director of clinical psychology at Emory who led the study. "What we saw instead was a network of emotion circuits lighting up, including circuits hypothesized to be involved in regulating emotion, and circuits known to be involved in resolving conflicts." Once partisans had come to completely biased conclusions -- essentially finding ways to ignore information that could not be rationally discounted -- not only did circuits that mediate negative emotions like sadness and disgust turn off, but subjects got a blast of activation in circuits involved in reward -- similar to what addicts receive when they get their fix, Westen explains. "None of the circuits involved in conscious reasoning were particularly engaged," says Westen. "Essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and activation of positive ones."

and further:
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/obs ... fm?id=2393 Here is an excerpt from this article: Westen and colleagues used neuroimaging to look at the neural responses ofindividuals who described themselves as partisan. They showed theparticipants one of three groups of slides: one group about their party’s candidate, one about the other party’s candidate, or one about a neutralcontrol subject. In each group, the first slide revealed a position the politician had taken, and the second depicted a contradiction — something the candidate had done or said that seemed to be contrary to what the first slide was saying. Not only were the participants unable to see the contradiction for their own candidate, but the neuroimaging also showed that they were regulating their emotional response. The researchers saw large areas of activation in the prefrontal cortex, which indicates emotional influence on reasoning, and in the posterior cingulated cortex, associated with forgivability. Essentially, participants detected the contradiction in their reasoning, but they weren’t allowing it to affect their opinion. Westen describes this as “motivated reasoning.” There’s more. Westen showed the participants yet another slide, this one offering a rationale for the earlier contradiction. When they did this, large areas in the ventral striatum became active, suggesting that participants were rewarding themselves for working through the problem. This combination of the suppressed negative emotions and reward for reaching abiased conclusion “suggests why motivated judgments may be so difficult to change,” Westen writes. “They are doubly reinforcing."

So, what to do about a seemingly hopeless stand off: Get in and duke it out with the Machine. Ignore the Machine, maybe to your peril. Or be a ghost in the Machine, doing the Work, writing the songs, moving higher, even if it means becoming for some an extreme cynic (yet another form of catylitic consciousness.) I prefer to be quietly optimistic and try to keep from casting my own dark shadow on my neighbor, even if it makes me look simple. By using both our reason AND intuition we have more power as beings.


10 Sep 2008 12:45
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004 02:18
Posts: 191
Location: austin, tx
Does anyone else think this guy is ridiculous? I don't understand why goofy pronouncements like this get any play at all.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/10 ... index.html

If we can't survive on this planet, I don't think we really deserve another chance. There was plenty for everyone here. There still might be...

J


09 Oct 2008 14:58
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Joined: 05 Oct 2008 13:53
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Location: Decatur GA


09 Oct 2008 18:06
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Joined: 04 Jun 2008 23:37
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Location: Seattle, WA

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10 Oct 2008 15:13
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 14:00
Posts: 162
Location: London
That Stephen Hawking story reminded me of the last 5 minutes of Dr. Strangelove. Just because you're a brilliant scientist doesn't mean you possess basic common sense.

On the other hand, maybe this space idea isn't so bad. I say .


11 Oct 2008 04:03
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Joined: 08 Sep 2008 09:04
Posts: 9
RE: JM 10-09
Tough day at the office, huh? Really, ya write a crappy song and, what, you don't get another lable or My Tube/You Space line up? Erlecta already. The cynic says, 'Rome wasn't built in a day and you don't get no Miracles.' T. Leary states in NEUROPOLITICS: The Sociobiology of Human Metamorphosis (1977) that the goal of humankind should be SMI(squared)LE -Space Migration, Intelligence (squared), and Life Extension. It's the cracked ones that let light into the world. What would YOU do with a 200 IQ? SH's take on CERN revelations lately are simply profound- although he seems a bit bored with it all. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day (and one that runs backwards is right 24.4 times-re-set...) Don't deserve another planet? That's harsh. You stay. I'm outta here on the first bus... Earth girls are still too easy. Fnord;>)


11 Oct 2008 22:19
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